MYROSLAV SLABOSHPYTSKYI: Sean Penn Acted in Our Film Without Fear of Consequences
Myroslav Slaboshpytskyi / Photo from personal archive
SHORT PROFILE
Name: Myroslav Slaboshpytskyi
Date of Birth: October 17, 1974
Place of Birth: Kyiv, Ukraine
Profession: Film Director and Screenwriter
Myroslav Slaboshpytskyi is one of the most renowned Ukrainian filmmakers in today’s world, who rose to fame in 2014 with his triumphant feature debut The Tribe. Since then, his name has remained on the pages of the Western film press.
While audiences, especially professional ones, eagerly await his new film, Slaboshpytskyi, currently working on the major studio project Tiger, continues to write scripts and, whenever possible, to shoot.
The first film he has made in recent years is the short The Eagle — the story of an American sound engineer, played by Sean Penn, set against the backdrop of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. The Eagle is part of the anthology War Through the Eyes of Animals, conceived and produced by Oleg Kokhan — the producer who has been collaborating with Slaboshpytskyi for several years on the grand Chernobyl drama Anthropocene.
It is about this project, as well as the American studio system, the nature and manners of A-list movie stars, resentments, dreams, and Ukraine that we speak with Myroslav Slaboshpytskyi, now living and working in Vienna.
Andrii Alferov: Eleven years ago your The Tribe was released, ultimately changing the global cinematic landscape. Of course, this is a subjective statement, but it is supported by the international film press, which wrote about it both at the time of release and afterwards. How has your life changed since then?
Myroslav Slaboshpytskyi: I have had several very heavyweight Hollywood projects, which I’m still working on in the hope of moving them off dead center. The stakes were serious from the very beginning. Repeating what I had already done — that is, making another small auteur film for a million with non-professional actors — seemed strange to me.
And so I took on a major studio project called Tiger, which unfortunately later got stuck in limbo. I hope that we will still move forward, because this may be the best thing I have ever written. Of course, there are also a few other large-scale projects. But it’s too early to talk about them. A big film is a complex structure of many components: stars, money, and numerous parties involved. Everything is very fragile and moves very slowly.
A. A.: And what does your daily routine look like now? You wake up in the morning and go to bed at night — what happens in between?
M. S.: I work almost all the time. I wake up and start working. For example, I finish a new round of manipulations toward yet another deadline . Or we’re approving sketches with the producers, or flying out for location scouting.
А. А.: The Eagle is your first film in the past ten years. How did it come about?
М. С.: In fact, the anthology of which it is a part is the brainchild of producer Oleg Kokhan. His idea was to show the war through the eyes of animals. He found the budget and started bringing in directors, offering each a separate short. I was among those invited. However, I didn’t agree right away. Several shorts had already gone into production, and I was still hesitating.
А. А.: Why didn’t you agree at first?
М. С.: At the time, I thought that making another short after a successful feature debut seemed rather absurd.
А. А.: What convinced you otherwise?
М. С.: One day, Oleg Kokhan called me and asked: «Would you like to make a short film with a star?» I said yes. That’s how Sean Penn’s name came up. And I became interested in working with him. At the same time, I understood that I would need to come up with a short, concise story that would contain both provocation and a vivid artistic image, but at the same time could be shot quickly. Especially since filming was to take place in Los Angeles and Ukraine, with a short running time… That’s how this concept was born.
А. А.: How did your first meeting go?
М. С.: It was 2023. Producers Oleg Kokhan and Oleksii Makukhin reached out to Sean Penn. He watched The Tribe. And once he saw it, he wanted to meet me. I flew to Cannes for the premiere of Asphalt City (2023) by my French friend Jean-Stéphane Sauvaire, in which Sean Penn plays a weary New York paramedic. A great film. It somewhat recalls American films of the 1970s and at the same time references Scorsese’s Bringing Out the Dead (1999). In short, I really liked it. We met at a hotel. And we probably didn’t part for the three days we were there. Most of the time we spent in Sean’s room — just talking, talking, talking.
А. А.: Talking about what, if it’s not a secret?
М. С.: About Ukraine. He was just finishing his documentary Superpower. So we spoke least of all about cinema, and most of all about military aid, weapons, F-16 jets — things like that. He kept asking questions; he wanted to know about life in Ukraine… There were always people around — actors, producers — someone constantly coming into the room, leaving. Life was pulsing in the background, and we just sat there talking.
Later, we all went our separate ways, having agreed that after Sean’s birthday, we would gather in Los Angeles and shoot the part of the film that, according to the script, takes place in Burbank (a suburb of Los Angeles, California). And then it all began: first, the Hollywood actors’ strike broke out. Accordingly, Sean Penn, like all members of the Screen Actors Guild, wasn’t allowed to work. To be able to film, a special waiver from the Guild was required. And that was quite a challenge.
Our producers worked hard to obtain it, Sean’s lawyers got involved (they came up with the explanation: «shooting in a non-commercial Ukrainian film»), and finally, we received it. Sean could act without fear of repercussions. You could tell he really wanted to play in this film. Altogether, it was a somewhat comical story. I was in Vienna, on the phone with producers Oleg Kokhan and Oleksii Makukhin. They, in turn, headed for the border, then to Poland, and from there to Vienna, so we could all fly together to Los Angeles.
Then a storm warning was issued, and flights were canceled. We didn’t know what to do. Right there in the car we bought the last tickets for some sketchy flight on a little-known airline. None of the major ones were flying at that time. In the end, instead of flying as planned, we took a low-cost flight out of Hamburg. We arrived in Los Angeles and went straight from the airport to scout locations, then to Sean’s house… Only after that did the shooting finally begin.
А. А.: Your film, without retelling the plot, about an American sound engineer and our war, evokes three undeniable masterpieces of cinema: Antonioni’s Blow-Up (1966), Francis Ford Coppola’s The Conversation (1974), and Brian De Palma’s Blow Out (1981)…
М. С.: Yes, I would say it’s definitely De Palma’s Blow Out, which itself is an homage to Blow-Up…
А. А.: And Blow-Up, in turn, refers back to Hitchcock’s The Trouble with Harry (1955), where a painter notices a corpse under a tree in his own canvas…
М. С.: Yes, yes. And Sean and I talked about this. You know, Sean is a huge fan — at least as a viewer — of American cinema of the 1970s. I jokingly call it «the cinema of moral anxiety». Films like Three Days of the Condor, Serpico, and of course, The Conversation. That’s his thing. In other words, in our film, he’s playing what he loved as a child.
А. А.: In Antonioni’s Blow-Up, the camera lens captures a reality no longer visible to the human eye. In your film, that role belongs to sound. Sean Penn’s character hears disaster before it arrives. What is that? The artist’s ability to foresee? After all, in The Tribe, you anticipated that social phenomenon when the society of one country is divided into hostile tribes and groups, often with a strong sense of superiority over others…
М. С.: I made The Tribe about what was outside the window. I wasn’t looking into the future then. I think that’s how it existed at that time. As for tribalism , it is inherent to people in general. Even in the film industry, there are teams, «mighty little cliques» warring with each other — people working only with their own. The Tribe is really more about the structure of society. It’s just slightly sharpened.
The Tribe came out right after the Maidan. And I was completely shaken by the shootings of the Heavenly Hundred. We were going to Lviv to film the railroad scene, and as I sat trembling in the train carriage, I thought about how just a few days earlier people from Lviv had taken this very route to Kyiv, not knowing they were going to die on the Maidan. Someone asked me then whether the film was too brutal. I answered: «Guys, just a few months ago, right in the center of my city, more than 100 people were killed. What are you talking about, what brutality?» And what’s happening in Ukraine today! Thousands are dying! So it’s only natural that people in my country are so emotional now. They are traumatized by the war.
А. А.: After The Tribe, major stars started reaching out to you with various proposals — Jared Leto, Brad Pitt, Darren Aronofsky… But you only worked with a big star just now, in The Eagle. Tell us, what is special about working with a celebrity?
М. С.: Most directors, of course, want to work with stars. This is important for many reasons. After all, when a star is attached to a script, it’s much easier for the film to secure financing. If there’s no star, the film gets only modest funding, usually from some national funds. And the fate of such films is different — they’re shown outside the main programs of major festivals, they often don’t get worldwide distribution, and so on.
Thanks to social networks and platforms like Netflix, the institution of stardom has suffered a wild inflation. Once upon a time, movie stars were like Olympian gods. They existed only on the screen. You would go to the cinema, where in the darkness you could see Steve McQueen, Robert De Niro, and others. The new era has struck a blow to stars, turning them into a kind of online influencers with a large number of followers.
For example, I don’t even know who counts as a star now. Even though I start my mornings reading Variety and Deadline. I read that a certain actor has been attached to a certain film. And I don’t know who that is. It’s some actor who shone in a Netflix series. No names. Only brands. Netflix sells an actor who, essentially, has no name. And there are huge numbers of such people. In my view, the last person who could easily be defined as a star is Leonardo DiCaprio. But he’s now 50. I don’t think stars like that have emerged since.
А. А.: The great Louis B. Mayer once defined a «star» as «just like any other person, only a little better». How would you formulate what a star is?
М. С.: Oh! He was a master of sharp remarks. When asked about the «message» that every film should contain, he replied: «We make movies, and Western Union delivers messages». As for your question, I would answer this way: directors film the men they want to be and the women they want to have. By today’s standards, that’s a completely politically incorrect statement.
That is to say, the main character of a film doesn’t necessarily have to be a star, but it’s preferable. After all, he essentially represents the interests of the ordinary person who came to the cinema. A kind of ambassador… The viewer looks at the actor on screen and thinks: «That’s me — only more handsome, luckier, braver». And that’s the star’s function. In The Tribe, my main character smashes the heads of his opponents — in fact, of all those I couldn’t smash myself (laughs). And at that gruesome final scene of The Tribe, audiences very often applaud.
А. А.: One of the qualities of a star is the degree of direct impact on the audience. But I’d like to ask about the degree of impact on the director. How was it working with Sean Penn? Did he have any special demands on set, require special treatment, a special way of being addressed? Were you not allowed to raise your voice at him? In what way does a star affect the director?
М. С.: We didn’t work that much together. If the shoot had lasted 50 days, I could say something more definite. But everything happened very quickly. Sean was as focused and disciplined as possible. And this is a man about whose wild temper there are countless legends! How he once spent 60 days in jail for a fight, how he shot at paparazzi trying to photograph his wedding with Madonna.
He has the reputation of being a troublemaker. But when we met, I discovered one of the most pleasant people I’ve ever encountered in my life. Polite, welcoming. We spent ten days together. I saw actors come to visit him, whom I cannot name. And I was left with an extraordinary impression of it all.
I felt the same way when I was casting for The Tribe at the Deaf Society. The difference is just that here it was a huge star, and there it was seemingly ordinary people. Sean has incredible charisma. You see, he walks into a room and instantly fills the whole space, the frame. He becomes the center of that place. He’s a star! They don’t make them like that anymore. God bless Netflix and the platforms, but there’s nothing like that there. You’re just looking at these meaningless pixels, not understanding why you need them.
А. А.: Did you and Sean Penn ever argue? After all, in front of your camera you had not just a star-actor, but also a director with a long track record. Did the director in him come out, or did he obediently do everything you told him?
М. С.: Honestly, I was terrified. And I was expecting it. He’s 64, and about 40 of those years he’s been in film. I remember our first day going to set. We drove to Hollywood Boulevard, had breakfast before shooting. Which is total idiocy, because on an American set there’s usually a whole freight car of food. That’s just how they do it. But somehow we didn’t think of that. I tried eating, but I was nauseous from the upcoming horror, and then I threw up right there on the street. I’m not kidding. Because I was thinking: «I’m about to work with Sean Penn!» So yes, I vomited on blessed Hollywood Boulevard.
We were filming in Burbank. That’s where the studio in our film is located, the very one where practically everyone you can imagine has recorded — from Madonna to God knows who else. By the time Sean arrived, everything was already prepared. The cinematographer and I had marked every shot point the day before so we wouldn’t waste time. We walked Sean through the script and started.
He stepped on set and did five or six takes with some adjustments. Played everything brilliantly. Including the scream in the climax — he shouted several times. Though let’s not spoil it. We had no clashes. And even if we had, I probably wouldn’t say, because that’s forbidden by contract. Everything ended well. I think he’s an accomplished person, with no need to assert himself by interfering in someone else’s directing. Or maybe it’s just his character. Of course, every actor is different, but Penn was wonderful. He came with a vision of the role. And I was also struck by the American crew.
А. А.: By what exactly?
М. С.: It’s a machine, a perfect mechanism. With a crew like that, you feel as if you’re in paradise. Everyone knows their task… The crew is, of course, probably three times larger than what we usually have in Europe. But it works with fantastic precision. And it certainly makes an impression.
А. А.: The anthology War Through the Eyes of Animals is a series of short stories featuring animals. Not that they are the main characters, but they somehow influence the fate of the people who appear in these stories. In recent years, the phrase «I love animals more than people» has often been heard. How do you feel about this? About that phrase and about people in general?
М. С.: I feel very warmly toward animals. When I started working on Tiger , back in 2017, my wife and I picked up a cat from the street. He’s been living with us ever since. I love animals very much and cannot stand any cruelty toward them. Even in films.
While preparing for Tiger, I spent a lot of time with real animal protectors — people who safeguard tigers, actual zoologists, and so on… Their love for animals is boundless. Although they don’t coddle them the way we do. Some things that are normal for them can shock us, for example. Me included. As for me, I love animals with a simple kind of love. If I see snails crawling across the road, I move them out of the way.
А. А.: Can you remind us briefly what Tiger is about?
М. С.: It’s an American film. At first, Aronofsky wanted to direct it with Brad Pitt in the lead role, but then the project was halted. The offer came to me through the agency I’m contracted with. Alexander Skarsgård is supposed to star in the lead role.
А. А.: They say artists fall into two types: those who create art out of love for people, and those who do it out of dislike. Woody Allen, for example, is a humanistic misanthrope. Or Michael Haneke, or Lars von Trier. Do you make films out of love for people or, on the contrary, out of disdain for them?
М. С.: I make films to deal with certain challenges of my own. I’m too focused on myself to really care about people. These are my views on certain human actions, on humanity in general. Whether it’s love or hatred — that’s secondary.
А. А.: Do you still hold a grudge against the Ukrainian Oscar Committee ?
М. С.: Of course not. It’s all forgotten! So much has happened since. Those people are no longer on the committee. And I myself have already served as a member of it. Back then, yes, it was terribly upsetting. But I went through it, buried it, and it healed over.
А. А.: Your short The Eagle, although part of a larger project, contains all the hallmarks of your signature style — motifs that carry over from film to film. In short, your universe is immediately recognizable, with Chernobyl at its center. It appears in your script for The Chernobyl Robinson, in your Locarno-winning short Nuclear Waste (2012), and in the script for Anthropocene. And it’s present in The Eagle too. Why are you so attached to this place?
М. С.: I first entered the Chernobyl Zone when I was very young, still a film student. It was one of the most powerful aesthetic shocks of my youth. In Pripyat, walking down Lenin Street, I felt as though I were inside a zombie apocalypse film. I was about 22 then. I got a job at an agency called Chernobyl Interinform. There we filmed TV programs about the work of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, which oversaw Chernobyl Interinform.
We went to all sorts of emergencies — like the explosion at the Skotchynskyi mine, where 63 people died, or the disposal of unexploded bombs — and to Chernobyl. We spent long periods in the Zone, filming different places, wandering around. We flew over it in helicopters and even went inside the 4th reactor. Back then it was much more romantic, much more closed off, much more dangerous than it is now. I mean before the war, when it had already become a tourist destination.
It was the second half of the 1990s. That’s when my romance with Chernobyl began. For me, Chernobyl is a microcosm, just like in The Tribe the world of the deaf is a microcosm. But I still think about Chernobyl today. Of course, it’s changing, deteriorating. And this current war has changed it completely, I think. Very little remains. Nevertheless, I still hope to make a film about it.
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