FANTASTIC TANDEM: Henry Lion Oldie on the structure of reality and envisioning the future
Dmytro Gromov and Oleg Ladyzhensky / facebook.com
Henry Lion Oldie is the joint pseudonym of the writing tandem of Dmytro Gromov and Oleg Ladyzhensky. They recently became the first-ever Ukrainian authors to be nominated for the prestigious BSFA Awards, which are given by the British Science Fiction Association.
The editors of our almanac could not miss such an unprecedented event. We offer you a series of publications in which two outstanding science fiction writers discuss the possible and the impossible, the nature of creativity, and the future of Ukraine and the world.
WHO IS HENRY LION OLDIE
Before passing the word to the «two-faced» Henry Lion Oldie, let us introduce you to this unique, fantastic tandem.
Henry Lion Oldie was born back in 1990 as a result of a creative union of fiction writers from Kharkiv — Dmytro Gromov and Oleg Ladyzhensky. It seems that they managed to resolve the eternal dispute between «physicists» and «lyricists», which creative intellectuals began back in the 60s. The point is that Gromov is a man of science and a chemical engineer by profession, and Ladyzhensky is directly related to art; he is a theater director.
The genre of science fiction has become the field in which a talented «physicist» meets with a talented «lyricist», generating, to the reader’s pleasure, dozens of exciting works, where science is sometimes neighbored by fantasy and mysticism.
Now, on the account of Henry Lion Oldie, more than 60 original books. Together with all reprints and translations into other languages, there are more than 280 books, with a total circulation of about 2 million copies.
Recently, Gromov and Ladyzhensky’s science fiction story «The Unknown Painter» was nominated for a BSFA award in the category «Best Translation of Short Fiction». The work is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the birth of artificial intelligence technology, and the importance of art.
It was created for the anthology The Digital Aesthete and translated into English by editor Alex Schwartzman. In the former Soviet Union, this appears to be the first time it has been nominated for the world’s premier English-language science fiction prize.
Thanks to Gromov and Ladyzhensky, the voice of Ukraine and Ukrainian culture has become better heard around the world. So, let’s give the floor to the wonderful writer Henry Lion Oldie, who, represented by Oleg and Dmitry, will be interviewed for our almanac.
BINOCULAR VISION OF THE TANDEM OF «PHYSICIST» AND «LYRICIST»
Oleg: We have been working together for 34 years. During this time, we haven’t quarreled or killed each other. When we decided to work together, Dmytro was already the author of a number of short stories and novels. In contrast, I was predominantly engaged in dramaturgy and poetry but also had experience in prose miniatures.
We read each other’s works, criticized, argued, and one day decided to try writing together. Of course, for some time, we were trying to get along with each other — two different characters, temperaments, and mindsets!
As a result, we concluded that ambition is not the priority. In other words, it doesn’t matter at all who wrote the line that will be included in the final version of the text. We have learned to select the best for the books. Actually, we are theater guys, and in the theater, it is common to do what is best for the performance.
If an actor needs to step back and become invisible in a mise-en-scene, he steps back and becomes invisible. When we realized this, all our arguments transformed into discussions. As a result, we ended up with a certain text in a common style.
Besides, Oldie is not just the sum of Gromov and Ladyzhensky. Binocular vision, looking at the world from two different points of view, gives a kind of new, third quality. When we periodically write separately, we get completely different texts — in style, approach, and even ideas.
Dmytro: Nowadays, we really don’t have as many serious arguments as we used to have in the beginning. We have a common goal — how to make a particular episode better. We usually have a master plan for the piece, and we always know how it will end. However, there are different ways to get from point A to point B, and these are the subjects of our discussion.
We have been heading towards a creative tandem for a long time… In 1978, I brought my story to the Kharkiv literary studio, where Oleg had been working for a long time. We got acquainted, but friendship, and moreover joint authorship, did not arise for a long time.
Each of us entered his own university, and we stopped attending the studio. We met again at a karate school, where Oleg was an assistant instructor. Acquaintance resumed, and I learned that, among other things, Oleg is a theater director, and he has his own studio.
I offered him one of my plays for the theater. It was science fiction with all its classic attributes — aliens, spaceships, abductions… Oleg then read the play but did not put it. And, as I realize now, he did the right thing. But I stayed in his studio for a long time as an actor.
Sports training and theatrical creativity brought us closer together, and we had the idea to try writing together. I am a technician, and Oleg is a humanitarian. We have common interests, but we also have different education, erudition, temperaments, and even tastes.
And this is great, because we complement each other. If we were the same, there would be no point in writing in co-authorship.
MARTIAL ARTS: A BREAKTHROUGH INTO THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT
Oleg: We have been practicing various martial arts for over 40 years. To karate, we can add judo and fencing on sabers — for me, on sword — for Dmytro.
In our Kharkiv community, there are 80-year-old «veterans», compared to whom 45-year-olds are just boys. These people have tremendous fortitude and continue practicing karate despite their limited physical abilities.
Just like all Kharkiv citizens, our «veterans» were shocked by the war. However, the experience of training for several decades helped and still helps physically and psychologically to survive the most challenging days.
It is almost impossible to separate the physical from the spiritual aspect of martial arts practice. For example, the average person never wants to exercise in the morning. But you get up and start anyway. Indeed, the source of such a deliberate decision is in the realm of the spirit.
This experience can sometimes be invaluable in extreme or creative situations. Of course, we could not pass it by in our literary work.
We have a novel «Messiah cleans the disk», which is written using the material of China of the XV century. Naturally, the famous Shaolin monastery and fighting monks are present there. There are novels «Carp and Dragon» and «Dragon and Carp» about alternative Japanese history of the end of the XVII century, where samurai, geisha, and monks appear.
In Kharkiv in the 90s of the last century and at the same time in Japan of the XV-XVI centuries, the events of the novel «Noperapon, or In the image and likeness» take place. So, we often refer to our experience of martial arts in literature and life. It’s one of the sources of energy and ideas for us.
Dmytro: We are often asked how our many years of martial arts training influences our writing. We have novels where martial arts are a plot-forming element.
Also, different characters have various «pieces» of us in them. They don’t have to be one hundred percent us — they can be worse, better, or totally different. It is clear that the hero is not a banal mold of the author but a kind of composite personality. There are both accidental and specially invented traits in it, and something from our acquaintances. But certainly something from us.
It has long been noticed that a literary hero does not «come to life» if the author is not at least partially reflected in him. This is true literally for any character — positive, negative, major or episodic.
To put it simply, if you don’t put a soul into a character, he won’t «come to life». And except for ours and Oleg, no others, as you understand, we do not have — we are not the God! That’s why some of our qualities, our passion for martial arts, and sometimes our mood and physical traits are transferred to the heroes.
ON THE PREDICTIVE FUNCTION OF FICTION
Oleg: In my opinion, the predictive function of fiction is greatly exaggerated. It is a kind of legend. When Jules Verne described the submarine, the idea of the submarine was already there. He simply extrapolated it into the future. In the same way, the idea of heavier-than-air flying machines existed before airplanes were invented.
Science fiction writers don’t predict the future. For example, no one foresaw the internet, although the idea of an «all-planet information center» existed. But with one important note: no one talked about the fact that a significant part of people’s lives would move into virtual space until this movement actually began.
When a science-fiction writer models the future, he is just elaborating on the existing trends, presenting them in an artistic form. It is known that the entire European mythology, for thousands of years of existence, could not come up with such a «fantastic» animal as the kangaroo until it was discovered in Australia.
So, you can’t invent something you don’t have at least a little idea about. Why, for example, has post-apocalypticism been popular for the last 10-15 years? Why the desire for pictures of post-war devastation and scorched earth with Mad Max and mutants running around?
Because the threat of a transition to a post-apocalyptic world is very real, it’s constantly in the air. Today, we’re getting up close to that scenario. God forbid that it should materialize, but any person has no less chance of «guessing» it than a science fiction writer.
Dmytro: We can name a number of fantasy works where some realities of the future were foreseen. It is believed that Arthur C. Clarke predicted, for example, cellular and satellite communications. But the fact is that satellites had already been launched by that time, and the fundamental possibility of using them for communication already existed.
Clark, of course, is a good man — he was the first to proclaim it. But it was not some incredible visionary breakthrough. And so it is in the vast majority of cases.
If we take the best works of science fiction and subtract them from all the predictions that have come true or are coming true, we will get, at best, 0.1%. And that’s only because, according to the statistics of probability, when making predictions, science fiction writers must sometimes hit the ten.
ON THE STRUCTURAL SIMILARITY OF REALITY AND LITERATURE
Oleg: If it makes sense to talk about prediction, it’s only in relation to the «format» in which a writer works on a story. The whole reality around us is built on conflict in one way or another. In the real world, conflict is always preceded by some event, which, developing incrementally, leads to a climax and denouement.
Similarly, the engine of any literary plot is conflict. In the plot structure, there is always an exposition, there is a situation when there is no conflict, and it is just emerging, there is a climax, etc. In other words, we can easily find certain structural similarities in the history of mankind and the history of our lives.
Dmytro: I think it is no coincidence that a literary work is structured in this way. Intuitively or intentionally, literature has always followed life, and at some point, literary scholars took notice of these structural features of the literary plot and wrote about them in textbooks.
Where else would literature get all this from if not from life? It is doomed to follow the logic of the development of life conflicts. Anything from family conflicts to geopolitical ones.
We can look at the conflict between Ukraine and Russia from this point of view. Obviously, from the perspective of the plot structure, we are still far from the climax. Moreover, you and I are not even the main characters in this story. Without mentioning the authorship…
Oleg: We can only guess how the stories will end in the real world. They have an open ending, and the full structure of the historical plot is known only to the Writer. As far as external historical events are concerned, you and I are anyone — readers, spectators, actors, but in any case, we are not Him! We just don’t see the whole picture, we lack information.
Of course, Dmytro and I have some idea of the possible climax and denouement of this war. But it is hardly necessary to announce it to a broad audience. Not because it is a mystery but because it is too presumptuous.
We see the world from inside of just one «episode». But thousands of people on earth exist in their own «episode». And their role in it is dictated by their view of the world, which is different from ours.
Each person works with their free will and their choices exclusively within their own «episode».
Dmytro: No single character can fill all the plot space. Every conflict has a «planner», an author who conceives conflicts before they even begin. I assume that, in addition to God, the Russian-Ukrainian war had those who planned its climax and denouement in advance.
Another thing is that these people could easily be wrong. As we know, any plan never fully materializes as it was conceived. So, they could easily have missed the shot. And not only in small things but also globally.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU BREAK THE «KARMIC COMPUTER»?
Dmytro: It is a long-known philosophical assumption that nature is a kind of universal intelligent being that reflexively reacts to human violation of the natural laws of the universe. Therefore, various types of social and natural catastrophes arise. This idea is quite often exploited by the authors of fantastic books and movies.
In essence, it is almost the same as God. Even if we are dealing with impersonal laws, the violation of which is fraught with various troubles for us. The idea of a living and intelligent universe may well turn out to be not so fantastic. True, as in the case of God, there is no evidence for it yet.
However, there is also no evidence that the opposite is true. Unfortunately, these ideas do not stimulate humankind to change its mind. Apparently, a stronger push is needed to realize what can be done and what is categorically not allowed.
Oleg: In our novel «Messiah Clears the Disk» we also paid tribute to the concept of an intelligent Universe. We assumed that there is a law of karma, which is absolutely «non-human». And it is totally inconsistent with our conceptions of good and evil, punishment and retribution.
And now, let’s imagine that a small «human» stone suddenly falls into this perfect mechanism. And human morality blows up the law from the inside, which was based on quite different principles of thinking, free from our emotions or desires.
As a result, the law of karma begins to crack at the seams, and after it — and the whole universe. And then it is necessary to clean the disk of the «universe computer», to format it again.
TO LOOK AT THE WORLD FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE
Dmytro: Trying to imagine the unimaginable is not the only but one of the possible motivations of a science fiction writer. Coming up with something that no one else has managed before you is very difficult but fundamentally possible. For example, China Miéville managed to do it within the aesthetic concept of his novel «The Last Days of New Paris».
I suspect that what happens to plot ideas, fantastic assumptions, philosophical, ethical, and aesthetic concepts in literature is about the same as what happens to notes in music or colors in painting.
There are many more musical masterpieces than notes, and the number of literary works is not exhausted by the number of «eternal» plots or letters in the alphabet.
Even assuming that the combinations are eventually exhaustible, there are still enough for a very long time. Those who like to repeat that «everything was invented for us long ago» do it either from ignorance or from laziness, from the habit of using something secondary.
Oleg: It’s worth adding that fiction for us is not an end in itself but a tool. We don’t have the task of creating some fantastic theory that no one has ever thought of before.
Even if we are talking about 15th-century China or traveling to a distant space, we still write about the present, about what concerns us now — there is no other option for us. Otherwise, why do we need fiction at all?
For us, this genre is an opportunity to sharpen the problem to the utmost, to look at it from an unexpected angle. It is an attempt to «wake up» the reader. We try to offer him a different lens through which he has not yet looked at the world. That’s why, for instance, when you write about the Trojan War, you talk about all the wars that came before and after it.
Suddenly, you notice that Odysseus was only 18 years old when he went off to fight. He was pulled out of his home, torn from his newborn son and young wife. This was not the life-long, bearded man we are presented with in popular culture. Tell me, how was he different from the modern mobilized man?
Homer needs a fantastic plot of unusual adventures and long wanderings in order for the reader to «come to his senses». He recognized in the fantasy something familiar, relevant to him, and said: «Indeed, all this is true; indeed, in life, everything is like this!»
Therefore, fiction is not the only but a very effective tool with the help of which humankind can test the foundations of its existence.
FANTASTIC FREEDOM!
Dmytro: Any genre has certain creative limitations. Fiction uses the same techniques and methods as any other kind of literature. But plus it emphasizes one more technique — fantastic assumption, which significantly increases the degree of author’s freedom.
This is the main thing that distinguishes fiction from any other type of literature. In this case, the novelty of the idea is desirable but not obligatory. You can take an already known assumption and originally adapt it.
For example, time travel is described in thousands of books. But all the outstanding works on this topic — completely different! At least compare «The Time Machine» by H.G. Wells and «The End of Eternity» by Asimov. Some describe time travel from a psychological, others — from a social, and another — from a philosophical position.
The fundamental attribute of science fiction is a plot-forming fantastic assumption. But we see that the fantastic assumption itself, the plot, the character of the heroes, and so on within the same idea of time travel are infinitely variable — this is the highest degree of freedom of the genre.
Oleg: This freedom has led to the fact that in the history of world literature, there is an incredible number of fiction works, the number of which is probably impossible to even count.
Let’s say, «Gulliver’s Travels» Swift, only not adapted for children, but the full version — what is this if not fiction? And «Gargantua and Pantagruel» by Rabelais, «Shagreen Skin» by Balzac, or «Little Zaches called Zinnober» by Hoffmann?
Fiction is very different; it’s a broad concept. Although in the strict sense of science fiction appeared quite late. By the way, do you know who was one of the first science fiction writers? Cyrano de Bergerac! He has a novel about going to the moon and lunar civilizations.
It was a long way to the landing of American astronauts on the moon, but a fantastic assumption about the possibility of such an event was made by Cyrano in his book «Another Light, or the States and Empires of the Moon» back in the XVII century.
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE: THE «THIRD EXTRA»
Dmytro: Fiction is a very practical thing, it has the most direct relevance to today. Studies conducted among the top management of the world’s leading corporations have shown that the most successful companies are those whose leaders were fond of science fiction in their youth.
China has not long ago realized the role of science fiction literature in the development of the economy and scientific and technological progress. Following the Americans, the Chinese discovered that these things are interrelated. And while the U.S. still holds the primacy here, the Chinese are paying more and more attention to the genre, to the point of introducing government incentive programs.
When Oleg and I make a sci-fi assumption, we take into account many different factors — biological research, trends in the development of artificial intelligence, social consequences of technological progress, etc.
For example, we can’t go past essential aspects of modernity, such as artificial intelligence and the virtualization of life. We have a number of works where we raise the topic of AI.
Our story «The Unknown Painter», which is nominated for the British Science Fiction Association Awards, is about artificial intelligence and the war currently being waged against Ukraine. In the story «Future», we reflect on the transfer of life into the virtual.
We recently finished the novella «Kali-Yuga», where we also explored the topic of artificial intelligence systems and swarming drones in the Russian-Ukrainian war. Of course, AI is on everyone’s lips today, it’s a topic that concerns many people and, naturally, we have our own assumptions about it.
Everyone interested in artificial intelligence can visit our website and get acquainted with our vision of this phenomenon.
Oleg: Artificial intelligence is only a part of the radical changes that are happening to humanity right now. We don’t even notice how more and more of our lives are going virtual.
We no longer care so much about our bodies, the clothes we wear, or the houses we live in. It is enough to maintain body functions optimally, and you can live wherever and however you want — virtual reality allows it. If this trend continues to grow, 75% of our activities will move to virtual reality. Human beings will gradually begin to identify with «pure intelligence» rather than corporeality.
The next step is that even minimal support for this corporeality is unnecessary, as artificial intelligence will model our personality according to data in social networks and fixation of reactions to basic irritants.
As a result, we will get a world similar to the ancient Greek kingdom of the dead, where disembodied shadows roam. Only in ancient myths, these shadows have no memory, and in our case, all memory will be stored on a cloud server. So far, the virtualization of life is a matter of voluntary choice. For example, Dmytro and I are not interested in the virtualization of creativity.
In our tandem, artificial intelligence is a «third extra», so we do not apply ChatGPT. I suppose that AI can be used in some cases as an auxiliary tool, but to hand over the creative function to it completely is to deprive creativity of any meaning.
We’re simply not interested. We resort to chatbots only when creating online covers for electronic publications. Frankly speaking, the quality of their work is such that we have to «edit everything to perfection».
Creative cooperation with AI is not safe because, in the world of judicial practice, there are already a number of processes related to plagiarism. When the author-customer blindly trusted ChatGPT, which, in fact, did not creatively use other people’s ideas.
BEYOND THE «MAGIC»
Dmytro: When we work, we periodically consult with specialists. Of course, we also «dig» ourselves and study some concepts, articles, monographs, etc. But you have to realize that no matter how deeply a writer delves into the material, he will still be inferior to a professional in one particular area.
The writer’s task is different — to create the illusion of authenticity. We are all magicians, illusionists. We don’t launch a real spaceship, we don’t build a real reactor, we don’t utilize the characteristics of real AI. If we could accomplish all of these things in the reality of the world rather than the reality of the text, our discoveries would have been working for the benefit of the motherland long ago.
Our works are realistic illusions, not reference books for specialists or amateurs. Yes, there should not be obvious bloopers from the scientific point of view. But the main thing is not their absence but unexpected nuances of plot, concept, and choice of theme.
A fantastic concept is an invented technology, although it is based on some actual knowledge. We work in a vast range: the minimum is with what already exists, and the maximum is with what does not exist but is potentially possible.
Oleg: The term «science fiction» is incredibly broad. It’s a huge mass of knowledge that different sciences offer us — sociology, history, geography, anthropology, physics, math…
It’s everything beyond magical assumption and folkloric wizardry. Why do readers often mistake science fiction for fantasy, for magic?
In the novel «Oikoumene», we make the assumption that there are people who are able to shift from a material form of existence to a waveform of existence. This gives «wave people» the ability to go into space directly, without a spaceship.
Many have taken this idea as a fantasy. Although it was borrowed from Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, who wrote about «radiant humanity». Such people do not even need planets to live in space.
CAN A TEXT CONTROL REALITY?
Dmytro: Once in the novel «We Are to Live Here», written in co-authorship with Andrey Valentinov (also from Kharkiv), we made a sort of fantastic assumption… One of the novel’s heroes is a writer whose texts become a reality.
However, we did not imagine that we could find ourselves in the role of such a writer. The novel «We Are to Live Here» was created from 1995 to 1998. At the end of the work, Kharkiv is invaded by a column of tanks from the direction of Belgorod.
At the time, such a scenario seemed absolutely fantastic to the vast majority of people on the planet. Unfortunately, our fictional assumption turned out to be prophetic.
Then, there were several other similar cases and very strange coincidences. For example, in the novel «Let Them Die», there is an episode in which a mysterious disease strikes certain cities and even entire regions. People suddenly begin to fall asleep right in the middle of the street, at the workplace, driving a car, etc. There is no clear cause for the epidemic. Three weeks later, it passes as abruptly and without reason as it began.
When the book was already written and went to the publisher, we came across a small note in one of the newspapers. It was about a town in northern Italy, where events unfolded exactly as in the novel. It’s as if the plot was stolen from us.
Oleg: The novel mentioned above, «Oikoumene», was written back in 2006. There, the action takes place in a distant space. One of the planets breaks away from an enormous space power and declares itself a separate republic.
Separatists are forced to return to the state by military means, but they are supported by another, powerful space civilization, which brings to the orbit of the rebellious planet its military fleet. I will not retell the whole plot, but I will note one detail — the planet in question is seen from space as yellow-blue. It was written eight years before the war began and sixteen years before the massive invasion.
In «Oikoumene», the space civilization is on the verge of a war of all against all, but total conflict is derailed for a number of reasons. Much of this novel has parallels to the current geopolitical reality on planet Earth.
Strange coincidences between reality and our assumptions happen, but I don’t think we should demand the same from a writer as we do from a politologist. Fiction has a different function. Even Jules Verne’s predictions did not all come true.
No human being, including the most advanced and informed, knows reliably what will happen in the future. Of course, like all ordinary citizens, we try to reflect on the war in Ukraine and draw some conclusions. But we do not voice them publicly.
First of all, we are writers. Why should we stand in a long line for hype together with hundreds of military analysts, forecasters, and politologists?
IS A «NEW MIDDLE AGES» POSSIBLE?
Dmytro: There is a relatively popular assessment of current events, according to which the world is shifting to a «new Middle Ages», to a «new archaic». Perhaps, to some extent, this is indeed true. For example, we cannot help but notice that Russia is acting in the most savage archaic manner towards Ukrainians and its own citizens.
We can say that Iran is also developing in a medieval paradigm. However, I am now observing directly opposite processes, something like a «new Modern». That is, two completely opposite vectors of development are fighting for the future of humankind. And it seems to me that the progressive trend prevails.
I don’t think that the fashion for fantasy has anything to do with the «new Middle Ages» either. Science fantasy is far from a new phenomenon. It is a genre where, in general, the scientific picture of the world neighbors with elements of magic and supernatural creatures.
We also paid tribute to such a hybrid genre. However, there is nothing in the popularity of this literary technique that would say that the world is sliding into the Middle Ages.
By the way, in the first half of the XX century, it is in the era of modernity that you and I see the birth of the most outstanding examples of fantasy. Take at least Tolkien’s «The Lord of the Rings» or Howard’s «Conan the Barbarian».
Oleg: I think it’s a mistake to define modernity as «Middle Ages.» All the horrors that are happening before our eyes — from «meat storms» to repressions, from Europe’s indecisiveness to internal conflicts in the United States — all of this has already happened in the XX century.
We are entering a «new XX century» whose horrors are far more terrifying and sweeping than those of the Middle Ages.
WE ARE REFLEXING THE XXTH CENTURY, WHICH WE «MISUNDERSTOOD»
Oleg: But as fiction writers, not as political scientists, we can try to conceptualize the path that humanity is on. We see that for decades, there has been a colossal struggle between globalists and adherents of the idea of national states.
The former insist on the priority of world controlling organizations, such as the UN, NATO, the World Health Organization, but in a new format. Another important player is transnational corporations, which want a more significant share of control than nation-states. During the Covid epidemic, we saw transnational regulations override the laws and constitutions of national states.
For example, they override the constitutional right to freedom of movement — I can’t get on a plane because I don’t have a vaccination, a certificate. However, we also see the opposite examples, such as national states pursuing policies that ignore transnational corporations and international agreements.
This struggle is now in full swing. Where will it lead? I am not sure that a homogeneous new world order will emerge. I think some countries may move to the left, others to the right. What the balance between the global and the national will be is almost impossible to predict now.
The only thing that should probably be clarified is that when we talk about nation-states, we should perceive them as a political nation, not as a nation «by blood». Otherwise, we will come to the horrors we experienced in the last century. In fact, you and I are now rethinking the XX century — we misunderstood it!
All the mechanisms of checks and balances that were created in the XX century have collapsed today. So we have to do this work — we have to reconsider the experience of the last century anew.
Dmytro: I think that at the end of the conflicts, we will get something in between, a «mix» of modified nation-states and globalist structures. There will be political, economic, trade, and military alliances that previously seemed impossible.
These will be completely new configurations and arrangements since no one — neither governments nor globalists and corporations — will be able to gain the final victory. The role of big cities will probably change, and they will become more subjective. Hopefully, the further redivision of the world will be in the style of a cold rather than a hot war.
IT IS TOO EARLY TO TALK ABOUT RECONCILIATION WITH RUSSIA
Dmytro: Imagine you are in 1943. You come to the ruined Kharkiv and ask people a question: are you able to forgive the Germans? I think you could have been killed for one such phrase. But it is dangerous to raise the issue of reconciliation with the Russians now, not because of that, but because words spoken at the wrong time have negative consequences.
There is a war going on now, which the Ukrainians want to win. Any war is inhuman by nature. If a soldier in the trench thinks about forgiving the enemy, he himself will die and let his country down. Will a government official or volunteer be able to properly help a soldier at the front if he thinks about the same thing?
Oleg: It is tough for us to accept that war goes beyond ethics and humanity. But, unfortunately, it does. Therefore, war cannot be measured by an ethical ruler meant for peacetime. When a predator attacks a prey, they both don’t think about ethical categories. These are very complex topics for «standard» interpretation.
For example, what should be considered a Ukrainian victory? We can talk about reaching the borders of 1991. But I would also suggest the following version of our victory: we did not let this war dehumanize and divide us, we were able to answer the question of why we, so different, need to be together. As the Bible says, «A house divided against itself will not stand». And it’s vital for us to stand.
«Together» — I would suggest this word as the central metaphor for Ukrainian victory. If, as a result of the war, some new ideology emerges that can unite all of Ukraine, we have won!
We need an ideology based on the image of a comfortable and secure future where everyone wants to live together. It is impossible to construct a desirable future based on ideas and characters from the past.
As we know, you cannot step into the same river twice, but you can step on the same rake twice. If we fail some history test, we will be forced to repeat it until we can’t pass.
